Can you see the wind?

Scroll back up. I think I already stated my view on that.

__________________
"Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake." - Matthew 5 v11 KJV

Very waggish indeed.

No. I know what it is though. It's caused by the Coriolis effect and by the movement of air from areas of high pressure to areas of low pressure. All this can and will stand up in a court of law. Can the same be said for your evidence of god? Didn't think so.

If the "word of god is error-free" then answe rmy earlier question. Who is Joseph's father?

MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.

Both cannot be true.
Therefore one is false.

Something which is error-free cannot contain an error.
The bible contains an error (since one of the statements in it is not true)
Therefore the bible is not error-free.

LOL Ok boss

How do you know what the wind is, or that it really exists? Can you prove all this Coriolis effect etc.?

We could play the "prove this" game for a loong time. At the core of it all, there are things no human can prove with certainty. Science itself is based on assumptions and interpretations. Science describes what people percieve to be happening, and attempt to explain it. Science can't give all the why's.

We can't see the wind, yet we know it is there because we feel it, and we see it's effect on objects around us. It's the same with God. We may not be able to see Him as a physical being, yet we feel His influence, and see the effect He has on the world around us.

I notice something interesting about those like yourself Inifidel (lol) who vigorously oppose matters of faith and God. It almost seems as if there's a personal vendetta going on. Why is that? Was there some point in your life when you used to believe, then traumatic even occured that shook your faith? Where's all this proof in a court of law argument coming from? Why is it you are so willing to believe that there is no God, but that there are phenomena for which you have no explanation? I would think it would take a greater act of faith to hold onto the idea that our existence and that of the universe is nothing more than a cosmic accident. Can you prove that in a court of law?

__________________
"Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake." - Matthew 5 v11 KJV

Very waggish indeed.

I just told you.

If you had any idea what the Coriolis effect was, you wouldn't ask that question.

Not at all. Theists make unsupported and, some would say, unsupportable, and incredible claims. I oppose it on this basis, not some trivial personal vendetta.

Yes there was. I stopped believing when I took a step back, examined the so called evidence and found it to be sorely lacking.

It is simply a way to examine the "evidence" objectively, without bias and according to the rules of logic and reasoning.

Because there are phenonema for which we have no or an insufficient explanation. Dark matter and black holes are two. These can be studied and hopefully one day explained rationally. Believing in an invisible sky man with super powers with no credible supprting evidence is not rational.

Funny. I don't recall saying anything about a "cosmic accident".

You have also noticeably refrained from answering the question about Joseph's father. After asking it twice, I can only conclude that you cannot answer the question while maintaining your stance of biblical inerrancy.
As biblical inerrancy is apparently the lynchpin of your belief, it follows that your whole argument is unsupported.
Perhaps you should gather some real evidence. Then you'll stand a chance of convincing me of your myths.

Breddrin, I won't lose any sleep trying to convince you of anything. God has laid out evidence of His existence all over the place. You chose to disregard it if you wish. That's your choice. If He so wishes, one day, He may provide you with the irrefutable proof you need of His existence and His character. Until then ...

__________________
"Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake." - Matthew 5 v11 KJV

Very waggish indeed.

Unfortunately, this is where I thought this thread would end up. Since you can't or won't provide me with solid evidence, then I should wait on an invisible super-powered sky man why may or may not deicde to poof some evidence into existence. Very unfortunate, as I was looking forward to an engaging conversation on the topic.

All the best to you bountyx

LOL!!!..............

ROFLMBAOOOO!!!!!!!

Quote:
How do you know what the wind is, or that it really exists?


I just told you.

Quote:
Can you prove all this Coriolis effect etc.?



If you had any idea what the Coriolis effect was, you wouldn't ask that question. by Infidel

I do know what the coriolis effect is but can u go in the sky and show me the coriolis effect in operation and go and show me the jet streams and all that good stuff i dont think so its just a theory of how weather operates.I see that u believe in all science theories and none can be proven irrefutably but u considered the god theory and just threw it out.Nothing in this world can really be proven the way u want it to be and as Bountyx have been saying ppl choose what to believe and thats just it.
I have read every post in this thread and Infidel you have a very strong athiest belief. What i get is that u want god to come in front of u and say," si mi yah, touch mi hand" and it does not matter what anyone say to u your not changing your stance. In the same light no scientist can give evidence of certain things even if he does another one is going to come and say noi dont think that make sense. A man got to just choose him road and walk down it.

This is very true, Renee. Believers in God choose to believe that he exists. Atheists choose to believe that he does not. They are both entitled to their opinions. However, most of the time it is the atheist defending his/her stance as to why he/she does not believe in God. Infidel's arguments were valid and intelligent.

Yup, everyone has their right to chose what they believe. And for each individual, they will interpret things they see and experience in different ways. Some people see God in everyday things around them. Some just see phenomenon. The defining thing with a relationship with God though, is the personal experience. You can't really know God without that experience, and it's unlikely you will have that experience, unless you are open to it. If you have set your mind on rejecting God and anything to do with Him, he will leave you alone, as you wish.

Which is why I don't burden myself too much with "proving" God exists to people who don't want to believe. I can't make them believe. It's not within my power. The most that I can do is share my experiences and feelings, and point out what God has done for me and what He want's for us all. The individual has to chose to make that leap of faith in order to have that personal experience with God. It's that whole faith things which gets aetheists all agitated. They don't trust what they can't see or prove.

I look at it this way though, in everyday life and living beings, I see a wonderous design. The earth and its inhabitants are part of a spectacularly designed system. I can appreciate that design as a technical person, because I know the kind of work that goes into planning the functions and integrations of several discrete units to produce a larger functioning system. It aint easy. So to me, there's no way life could not have been created.

Having said that, whoever created the universe must have immense power, and considering how good life is and how life is provided for on the planet, that being appears to be benevolent.

So now we come to scripture. I read the scriptures and it provides explanations about this benevolent being, and what is happening on earth. Yes, it was inspired by God and written by man, and handed down through the ages, and translated, and misquoted etc. But that's why people should read, question, study and corelate with their experiences and what they see around them so that they are able to determine the Truth. To me, based on my experiences, and observations, the scriptures appear to me to be relevant and valid.

To me, that is sufficient to fuel my belief in God. To others, it is not. Aetheists won't likely get their "proof to hold up in a court of law" until God chooses to reveal everything - when He comes to settle everything.

I still think it's ironic that aetheists who seem to be so anti-faith, would hold so much faith in there being nothing to have faith in when they themselves cannot prove there isn't.

__________________
"Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake." - Matthew 5 v11 KJV

Very waggish indeed.

Hello Renee, and welcome to the discussion.
I could show you the jet stream in action. When you hit the jet stream the speed of the air will increase significantly. This increase is measurable and is measured every 12 hours for weather charts. Seems a bit more than a theory to me.

As for the notion that the Coriolis effect cannot be proven, please see here.

I would disagree with you saying I have a strong atheist "belief". I simply refuse to accept christian beliefs on the basis that there is insufficient evidence to support the incredible claims by them.

Yes, there are scientific theories which will be proven to be completely or partially incorrect. When that happens, scientists accept this new or revised theory based on their new knowledge. They don't stick to two thousand year old books that have been proven time and again to be inconsistent and full of errors. Which one makes more sense?

A scientist who cannot give some evidence of his theory would NEVER call it anything more than a theory, and if he is proven to be wrong, would accept that his theory is wrong. If he didn't, he would be the laughing stock of the entire scientific community and probably be labeled as a crackpot.

You are correct in saying that "it doesn't matter what anyone SAYS to me". You can say anything you want, but if you don't have credible evidence to back it up, then, naturally, I will not change my position.

Atheists don't have to prove anything. Theists are the one making these incredible claims about a undetectable, unknowable, ominpotent, omniscient, omnipresent being with no credible evidence to support it. Atheists simply reject these claims based on the lack of evidence. The burden of proof is squarely on the shoulders of theists.

You forgot edited.
Noone is saying that there aren't good moral codes in the bible (once you disregard the stoning to death of disobedient children and adulterers, the killing of children for the sins of their father [ISA 14:21], the god-supported killing of women and children [Jer. 13:14] etc., etc.)

Bear this in mind, in a court of law, not everything for which evidence is presented turns out to actually be true, and not everything for which no evidence (which is admissable to the court) can be presented is false. Guilty people are "proven" innocent, and innocent people are "proven" to be guilty in courts of law all over the world, every day. So the fact that in your opinion, evidence presented to you of God's existence would not hold up in a court of law, does not mean that God does not exist. Human courts of law are flawed. Judgements they make are fallable.

People who don't understand aspects of scripture often rush to judegment and conclude that there must be an error, or a contradiction. Careful study of the scriptures, with God's guidance, will lead to clarity.

The fact that I wake up every morning to live in an intricately designed, complex world is sufficient evidence for me that an all knowing, all seeing, all powerful being exists. To me, it's incredible that someone could experience all this, and deny the existence of the Creator. It is not up to believers to prove anything to aetheist. It is up to aetheists to open their eyes and minds to see the evidence that is already around them. Because something is not presented to you in the way that you want it, does not make it invalid or not credible. It could just mean that do not understand it.

__________________
"Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake." - Matthew 5 v11 KJV

Very waggish indeed.