Two Faces - Jamaica Talk

#1 (**permalink**) 11-16-2004, 02:58 PM

I am reading this book and I just wanted to know some of your thoughts about this phenomenon called shifting.

Based on the African American Women's Voices Project, Shifting reveals that a large number of African American women feel pressure to compromise their true selves as they navigate America's racial and gender bigotry. Black women "shift." They change the expectations they have for themselves. Or they alter their outer appearance. They modify their speech. They shift 'white' as they head to work in the morning and 'black' as they come back home each night. They shift inward, internalizing the searing pain of the negative stereotypes that they encounter daily. And sometimes they shift by fighting back.
Do you ever feel that you are working overtime to put others at ease? Or that you have to leave your true self at the door in order to placate White colleagues? Do you downplay your abilities or strengths for fear of outshining Black men? Do you speak one way at the office, another way to your girlfriends? Is it sometimes a struggle to feel good about your looks? Are you constantly battling stereotypes?

Nandii · #2 (**permalink**) 11-16-2004, 03:09 PM

YES!!!!!!!!!!! What's the title of that book?

#3 (**permalink**) 11-16-2004, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nandii

YES!!!!!!!!!!! What's the title of that book?

Shifting, its really deep, it makes you really look within to see how do you view yourself and at what cost are you willing to compromise yourself in order to make it in life. .

sunserie · #4 (**permalink**) 11-16-2004, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truth78

I am reading this book and I just wanted to know some of your thoughts about this phenomenon called shifting.

Based on the African American Women's Voices Project, Shifting reveals that a large number of African American women feel pressure to compromise their true selves as they navigate America's racial and gender bigotry. Black women "shift." They change the expectations they have for themselves. Or they alter their outer appearance. They modify their speech. They shift 'white' as they head to work in the morning and 'black' as they come back home each night. They shift inward, internalizing the searing pain of the negative stereotypes that they encounter daily. And sometimes they shift by fighting back.
Do you ever feel that you are working overtime to put others at ease? Or that you have to leave your true self at the door in order to placate White colleagues? Do you downplay your abilities or strengths for fear of outshining Black men? Do you speak one way at the office, another way to your girlfriends? Is it sometimes a struggle to feel good about your looks? Are you constantly battling stereotypes?

This is an excellent thread!

#5 (**permalink**) 11-16-2004, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunserie

This is an excellent thread!

Thank you

bountyx · #6 (**permalink**) 11-16-2004, 04:19 PM

Many people "shift" in one way or another. Not just black women. For example, many people in the working world dress and communicate in ways outside of their natural comfort zone, so that they "fit in" or just to be able to be understood in that environment. I guess the extend to which this is done and the impact it has on the individual varies. The culture you are in and the one you are from will help to dictate the effect it has on you.

In Jamaica I guess this would be manifested most obviously in the way people speak. Some people make a concious effort to speak standard English while at the office, while they are most comfortable communicating in patois or slang. But even white people "shift". The guy who grew up on the farm in Oklahoma "shifts" into the corporate image so that he can be taken seriously and advance in the company.

It doesn't have to be a bad thing. Many people are comfortable relating to different kinds of people and don't have issues with their identity even though they make the effort to fit in with others. Some people have issues with it.

The issues with black women altering their appearance to "look white" is an issue. Skin bleaching etc. is a serious issue both from a health perspective and a psychological one. I'm not so sure if this really is a manifestation of the "shifting" but I guess it's related. The sad thing is that in many cases, the attempts at bleaching fail miserably and the effects are harmful - plus the purpose for which it was done is not accomplished as now the women just look funny. White people do this stuff too...look at the amount of white women paying for collogen lips etc.

#7 (**permalink**) 11-16-2004, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bountyx

Many people "shift" in one way or another. Not just black women. For example, many people in the working world dress and communicate in ways outside of their natural comfort zone, so that they "fit in" or just to be able to be understood in that environment. I guess the extend to which this is done and the impact it has on the individual varies. The culture you are in and the one you are from will help to dictate the effect it has on you.

Yes a lot of people change some attributes of self but this thread is specifically addressing the unique position that African American women find our self in as we combat racism and sexism. You can start a new thread if you want to go off the subject but I wanted responses in regards to Black women having to shift in order to appease white mainstream.

bountyx · #8 (**permalink**) 11-16-2004, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truth78

Yes a lot of people change some attributes of self but this thread is specifically addressing the unique position that African American women find our self in as we combat racism and sexism. You can start a new thread if you want to go off the subject but I wanted responses in regards to Black women having to shift in order to appease white mainstream.

How are black women in America unique in this respect?

MissClassy · #9 (**permalink**) 11-16-2004, 06:12 PM

What an appropriate topic for the day!
Just now as I was returning from lunch reflecting on the year that is slowly coming to a close.....One year to the day since my promotion...One year to the day since my life took a turn. In reflection, it would seem as though I was the chosen "Token"

Being the only person of colour in my office, let alone woman of colour on the entire floor of my office Building Suite, does have it's fair share of challenges. Yes I've worked in corporate america for umpteen years - right out of high school and throughout college, and now post grad. But all along, in offices and on campus which reflect some level of diversity. While on campus, there were the Sistah crowd; some who kept it real and some - well a little too real (bordering ghetto), then there were those who were the Sistahs who were just too "Caucasian" mentally, that they too, themselves forgot who they really were.

Nontheless, I always fit in - not as in fitting a mould that was made for me, but fitting in where It never mattered as I was comfortable in my skin and was always looked up to by all regardless of race, color or creed. Now that I have accepted a promotion and move to an office off campus, It really is different. Without loosing my identity I am the Sistah who would turns heads in the lobby, elevator , boardroom and became known as "Miss Vogue" - as a result of my keen eye for fashion with a sophisticated flair!

Truthfully, It was difficult adjusting to a more casual office environment where my male counterparts would don khakis, dress shirts and sports blazers, while the female, just didnt seem to care. Lord knows they can afford to - we all are, either Phd's, MBA's or BA's so I have to defer to the resolution that they just didnt care. They would always comment on my "sense of style and flair for fashion" even on days when I personally didn't think I was tryin.

So, YES I am GUILTY of Shifting.....the mannerisms that I project are really a shifted tilt. I get the comment that my english is "so proper". I wonder what were they expecting... for me to fit their stereotype of Black women that Black Women and women of colour have to fight each day? They usually catch themselves, and somehow turn it into a compliment on my accent. But both they and I know what the true underlying statement meant. My accent,though ever so subtle, is definite a badge of honor that I proudly wear.
I do occasionally, wear extensions in my hair which change in style and texture from month to month...they are always amazed at how frequently my styling changes. I proudly reaffirm that "Black women are diverse and have the luxury of versatility when it comes to styling our hair"...... I would say and with a smile that gleamed self fulffilment as I walk away to attend to what I am really there for , which is to do my job.

It does seem like an uphill battle at times ~ that I have to go the extra mile each day to prove my worth as a valuable asset to the various projects on which I work as well as to the company on a whole.

So YES Black Women do have to shift to be recognized, appreciated and accounted for as an invaluable asset to Corporate America and to society.

bountyx · #10 (**permalink**) 11-16-2004, 06:30 PM

What is this "true self" that people leave behind? What is it that they "shift" to?

#11 (**permalink**) 11-17-2004, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bountyx

Many people "shift" in one way or another. Not just black women. For example, many people in the working world dress and communicate in ways outside of their natural comfort zone, so that they "fit in" or just to be able to be understood in that environment. I guess the extend to which this is done and the impact it has on the individual varies. The culture you are in and the one you are from will help to dictate the effect it has on you.

In Jamaica I guess this would be manifested most obviously in the way people speak. Some people make a concious effort to speak standard English while at the office, while they are most comfortable communicating in patois or slang. But even white people "shift". The guy who grew up on the farm in Oklahoma "shifts" into the corporate image so that he can be taken seriously and advance in the company.

It doesn't have to be a bad thing. Many people are comfortable relating to different kinds of people and don't have issues with their identity even though they make the effort to fit in with others. Some people have issues with it.

The issues with black women altering their appearance to "look white" is an issue. Skin bleaching etc. is a serious issue both from a health perspective and a psychological one. I'm not so sure if this really is a manifestation of the "shifting" but I guess it's related. The sad thing is that in many cases, the attempts at bleaching fail miserably and the effects are harmful - plus the purpose for which it was done is not accomplished as now the women just look funny. White people do this stuff too...look at the amount of white women paying for collogen lips etc.

I JUST WANT TO TAKE TIME OUT TO THANK TRUTH ON A GREAT THREAD. NOW I WOULD LIKE TO TAKE TIME OUT TO ASK BOUNTYX ARE U AFRICAN AMERICAN, OR JAMACIAN OR A PERSON OF WHITE DECENT. I WANT TO KNOW FOR MY REASONS I GET INTO LATER...................... OK I THINK YOU SHOULD READ THE THREAD AGIAN. TRUTH IS TALKIN ABOUT THE BOOK THAT SHE'S READ AND DEALING WITH THE AFRIKAN AMERICAN EXPERIENCE. SO NOW HERE COMES MY QUESTION FOR U, WHY CAN'T U STICK TO THE THREAD. IS IT THAT U HAVE A HARD PROBLEM READING THE THREAD. OR ARE U A WHITE COLLEGE KID STUDYING BLACK HISTORY OR SOMETHING. COULDN'T AFFORD BOOKS SO U COME HERE.

bountyx · #12 (**permalink**) 11-17-2004, 03:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbg

I JUST WANT TO TAKE TIME OUT TO THANK TRUTH ON A GREAT THREAD. NOW I WOULD LIKE TO TAKE TIME OUT TO ASK BOUNTYX ARE U AFRICAN AMERICAN, OR JAMACIAN OR A PERSON OF WHITE DECENT. I WANT TO KNOW FOR MY REASONS I GET INTO LATER...................... OK I THINK YOU SHOULD READ THE THREAD AGIAN. TRUTH IS TALKIN ABOUT THE BOOK THAT SHE'S READ AND DEALING WITH THE AFRIKAN AMERICAN EXPERIENCE. SO NOW HERE COMES MY QUESTION FOR U, WHY CAN'T U STICK TO THE THREAD. IS IT THAT U HAVE A HARD PROBLEM READING THE THREAD. OR ARE U A WHITE COLLEGE KID STUDYING BLACK HISTORY OR SOMETHING. COULDN'T AFFORD BOOKS SO U COME HERE.

I'll pray for you brother.

bountyx · #13 (**permalink**) 11-17-2004, 06:18 AM

For those interested, here are some questions which the authors of the book mentioned by Truth78 have suggested for discussion on the topic on "shifting":

Quote:

1. Which women's stories in the book most vividly captured your attention? What is it about these women that was intriguing, distressing, or inspiring? What would you like to say to them? Are there any similarities between you and them?

2. What stereotypes about Black women are you aware of? What impact do stereotypes of Black women have on you? On how you feel about yourself? On your relationships with other Black women? With Black men? With non-Black people?

3. Do you think Black women lead "double lives"? In what ways?

4. What does "shifting" mean to you? Do you shift? In what ways and in what situations? At work? At school? At home?

5. How do you feel about your own shifting? Are you ashamed of it? Proud of it?

6. How do you feel about your skin color? Your hair? Your body shape and weight? To what extent do you think that negative images of Black beauty affect how you see yourself?

7. Do you think that gender bias is a problem within the Black community? Where do you see instances of it? How has this affected you?

8. Do you think that the Black community engages in "gender silence"? Do you find it difficult to talk about or acknowledge gender bias within the Black community? Is it difficult to challenge Black men when they are sexist?

9. Do you ever shift in relationships with Black men? In what ways?

10. Have you experienced racial or gender bias at church or in a religious community? In what ways? Is sexism more acceptable to you in church than in other settings?

11. How can we raise Black girls and boys to withstand the negative images and messages about being Black? What can we do as parents? As teachers? As church and community leaders? Should we teach Black children to shift?

12. How healthy is shifting? What are the consequences of shifting for you? How does it affect you emotionally? When does it work for you? When is it damaging?

13. How can we keep racial and gender bias from affecting how we feel about ourselves?

14. How might you be contributing to racial or gender bias, even unintentionally? In your personal relationships? As a parent? At work? At church?

15. How can you challenge racial and gender bias? In your family? At work or school? In your community? How can we work together to create a more just world?

Their website is at http://www.blackwomenshifting.com/

bountyx · #14 (**permalink**) 11-17-2004, 06:20 AM

And I'll put another spin on it...does this phenomenon exist in Jamaica? If it does, then to what extent? What is the Jamaican woman's experience? Are things any easier or more difficult for a Jamaican woman trying to make it in America?

MissClassy · #15 (**permalink**) 11-17-2004, 12:29 PM

Can we get some fresh female perspective here in this thread.... A whey di females dem deh....a unu we waan hear from and your experiences?