From first hand, no I don't. I'm a Jamaican in Jamaica. From the experiences of my family in the U.S. - yes. I know about the adjustments which some black Jamaicans have to make in order to make it after moving to the US - men and women. I imagine that the experience of African Americans would have it's differences from that of Jamaicans in the US.

You have said that black women make certain changes, and you have spoken about the motivation for those changes. What is not clear to me are what those changes really are, and how those changes contribute to a perceived loss of identity, or really what are the real impacts of the "shifting" on the black woman.

I get your point that black women in America feel as if they have 2 strikes against them with racism and sexism. That must mean that black Jamaican women in the US have 3. 1 - they're black, 2 - they're women, 3- they're foreigners who are seen as threats because they come from outside to take the jobs of Americans and aren't "down with the struggle" in the same way as African Americans (amongst other negative stereotypes about Jamaicans).

I get the point about shifting - adapting to your environment. What I don't get is how that differs from anyone else - male or female, that has to adapt to a new environment, or one in which they culture is different from what they are used to.

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"Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake." - Matthew 5 v11 KJV

Very waggish indeed.

And if you don't you never will, I will not continue to get off the topic of this thread because it was not posted to prove anything, it is what it is. I posted this thread so Black women in America and abroad could share their experience, struggles and strengths yet you continue to try to minimize the content or validity of this post, if I wanted to debate I would have put it in the format to do so however, my intent was to shed light on the experience of Black women in America in dealing with racism and sexism not to prove anything to anyone especially not you. I take everything you say with a grain a salt because you do not live in America and just because some of your family members do, its not the same. Someone that has not lost their mother has no idea what it feels like they can have empathy but there are certain experiences that you have to live for yourself in order to fully understand where an individual is coming from. Once again you have succeeded in getting off the topic of this post. I'm not sure what the reason is in your responses perhaps you just like to see your name in every post or that you are trying to increase the effectiveness of your writing skills, at this point I do not care and will not respond anymore to your posts unless you are actually discussing the topic and not just asking questions to dissent, if you want to debate start a thread and I will be happy to oblige you.

I actually "get" what bountyx is trying to pry out of us. I however don't know how to answer it other than to give an example.

Adapting to ones environment is one thing, but for some, its more than that. Adaptation implies a permenant change. How many white people have to "adapt" to their environment, outside of the usual mandates of their employee handbooks that tells them what hair, clothes and behavior is appropriate for their job.

I'm -brown- and work in a primarily white company. Being that my job is driving a school bus, my choice of attire is all about the comfort- Jeans, t'shirt, sneakers. I don't have anyone but kids to impress, so my hair is usually just ponytailed. My fellow employees had never seen me "ethnicked" up. (word invention for the ETJ lingo thread) Upon my return from Jamaica a few years back, I went to the bus company to inform them of my return, and they saw me with my hair braided, black from the sun, and wearing non-work clothes. The expressions on their faces were precisely what is being discussed here. They didn't know how to react. One woman (older) looked at me like I was some sort of freak, and asked me if I thought I was Black! LOL I was stunned! I said, "errrr in case you didn't notice...." She, in particular, was soooo uncomfortable around me until I took my braids out and slipped back into Jeans and t-shirt again. This conforming to my environment is something that I unknowingly had been doing my whole life until that moment. It wasnt for my OWN sake, but for the people AROUND me.

It is the same theory as to why most tourists will always seek what is "familiar" to them, regardless of how far into the bush they take their holidays. (hence, the success of the all-inclusive resort)

RE: What I don't get is how that differs from anyone else - male or female, that has to adapt to a new environment, or one in which they culture is different from what they are used to

Great question. It differs because white people do not have to "alter" every fiber of their being to "fit in." I have "altered" myself my whole life to "fit in" to an environment that was supposed to be welcoming and equal to me. People expect the foreigner to be different, and don't put as many demands to conform upon them (though they subconciously wish they would) and as for men... honestly, I cant speak for them. lol I've never been one.

(I'm not nearly as bitter as that last paragraph sounded) lol But I hope you get the point.

Mair, I want to thank you for having the patience to try and understand what I was getting at, and the insight to actually respond in a way which educates not only those actually in the situation in America (for whom the world does not revolve around) but for those from outside the US (like those in Jamaica- which is the focus of this website) who have to interact with those there and encounter a whole other set of issues because of the lack of understanding. Thanks for demonstrating that sometimes "not sticking to the topic" as strictly as some would like, can actually bring across important points which may have been missed otherwise.

Thanks. From what you've related there, I can see that some of the issues are:

- The feeling of moving outside of one's comfort zone to make another set of people comfortable

- The feeling it is unfair for one set of people to have to do this while the other set doesn't.

And from this I glean that :

- It's unfair that everybody doesn't make changes to the same extent.
- Foreigners may get a break in a sense, because it is accepted that they will be different, and their differences are more easily respected by the mainstream than those of the minorities already there.

Thanks again Mair. You have enlightened me.

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"Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake." - Matthew 5 v11 KJV

Very waggish indeed.

All of the above are exactly the same points MissClassy, Sunserie, Luv, JamCan, PrincessB and Truth made even though they used different examples and words to explain their positions.

This is an excellent thread topic I think, and its old so lets bring it back.

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"Life is either a daring adventure or nothing." -- Helen Keller

Well IN MY OPINION, I understand the book was being told in an African American female's perspective, but I'm sure that many people of various races feel this "shift" as well.
I'm non-white living in California. I'm sure everyone believes that we are a multi-cultural State where being "accepted" for who you are is easier than anywhere else in the U.S., but I definitely find myself switching my speech/demeanor around various environments. I believe that for anyone to succeed you have to make that SHIFT, its instinct. I don't feel like its a form of "selling out."
I've gone above and beyond the norms of where statistics placed me. I came from a home where both my parents came from another country, I grew up in the inner-city, and my family income was at California's average poverty level. But what my mother instilled in myself and my siblings was to GET EDUCATED. Went to college, got my B.S. in Business and am where I am today. ( A peon in a construction office, lol)
In school we are taught "proper" English and Grammer, and the teachers/professors spoke to us in a professional manner as well. You gradually learn that in order to interact on a level outside of your norm, you have to be a chameleon and adjust...or communication is often blurred or lost.
I cannot imagine coming to work telling my boss "yo watz good son!" or referring to my co-workers as "homies" but those are words I use outside of the office when I'm at home...and I doubt that the sweat pants I rock at home would appease the "business casual" rule either. Different situations call for different methods, today's society tells us to "shift" in order to fulfill these various situations in our life.
This is a very good topic, and despite the fact that I am not African American...my daughter is half, and I want her to be fully aware of the obstacles she may/may not have to face. All I can tell her is the same thing my mom told me...GET EDUCATED, and make a better life for herself. If she feels that she has to put on two faces to get ahead then that is a choice she'll have to make for herself.

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One smile from her & my troubles melt away!

Nah...I don't put on airs, but I do think there is a such this called professionalism. There is no way I would go to work dressed like I am going to the gym nor would behave unprofessionally. I pretty much try to be respectful of everyone's feelings, but I will be honest in a professional and nonprofessional environment.

Nope...I see no reason to downplay anything about me when it comes to men. Love me or hate. it's your choice.

Yep I do speak differently at the office. I cut out the slang because that is not appropriate in the workplace. Especially if you have co-workers from all over the world. Plain english is best because it is universal and helps to avoid a lot of potential misunderstandings in the workplace.

No it is not a struggle to feel good about my looks. I like me and so does God and that's all that matters. Besides beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I battle stereotypes sometimes. I had a co-worker who thought black people were inferior to whites. She also thought all crimes were commited by blacks and she made the comment the black people and hispanic should not mix. She said the children suffer because they get the worse physical traits from both. I got her fired for that.

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Welcome to the Yoville Addiction

Yes, i speak differently depending on where I am and who I'm around. I've been told by black people "you talk/act white" Been told by white people "ghetto"

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