Two Faces - Page 2 - Jamaica Talk

LuvJamaicanMen · #16 (**permalink**) 11-17-2004, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truth78

Do you ever feel that you are working overtime to put others at ease? Or that you have to leave your true self at the door in order to placate White colleagues? Do you downplay your abilities or strengths for fear of outshining Black men? Do you speak one way at the office, another way to your girlfriends? Is it sometimes a struggle to feel good about your looks? Are you constantly battling stereotypes?

Truth, let me tell you the truth. I used to work overtime trying to put people at ease, by being someone that I was not.
But I asked myself why should I compromise who I AM, just so that someone else may feel a bit better. Yes some would say that you should do this out of love and not be selfish, but I LOVE me too, so why put myself through that?.
I don't have a problem showing my strengths even it it oushines by black male colleagues..Too bad for them, They wanna get ahead and so do I.

Now about speaking differently at work and outside work. Yes when you're at work, i do agree that you do have to put on that PROFESSIONAL LINGUA, so that i do whilst i at work, but i don't really have a problem with that.

Feeling good about myself....well sometimes i do struggle about that..but hey , who doesn't!

sunserie · #17 (**permalink**) 11-17-2004, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truth78

I am reading this book and I just wanted to know some of your thoughts about this phenomenon called shifting.

Based on the African American Women's Voices Project, Shifting reveals that a large number of African American women feel pressure to compromise their true selves as they navigate America's racial and gender bigotry. Black women "shift." They change the expectations they have for themselves. Or they alter their outer appearance. They modify their speech. They shift 'white' as they head to work in the morning and 'black' as they come back home each night. They shift inward, internalizing the searing pain of the negative stereotypes that they encounter daily. And sometimes they shift by fighting back.
Do you ever feel that you are working overtime to put others at ease? Or that you have to leave your true self at the door in order to placate White colleagues? Do you downplay your abilities or strengths for fear of outshining Black men? Do you speak one way at the office, another way to your girlfriends? Is it sometimes a struggle to feel good about your looks? Are you constantly battling stereotypes?

I think somewhere as children we start our
lives with great exuberance, expecting and
demanding everything from the world. This
generally carries over into our first real steps
into society, as we begin our lives and careers!
Today's Black Woman bears a lot of respon-
sibilitie and burden in her life. The need to wear
a different hat is almost mandatory. As we live
and experience the rebuffs and failure we tend
to take a different course in how we conduct and
portray ourselves to the world and the ones we
love.

Sometimes due to the misfortune we begin to
expect less from the world, we except limitations
that are really self imposed. We start to bow and scrape
and apologise for who we are. We show this in the
way we alter how we look, speak ect...(for some not
all). The horizons are shrinking before our eyes, so we
deliberately force ourselves in the opposite direction-
to downplay the failures we are experiencing.

I believe the shifting' comes into play based on the
simple chain of 'cause and effect.'

bountyx · #18 (**permalink**) 11-17-2004, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunserie

I believe the shifting' comes into play based on the
simple chain of 'cause and effect.'

Good point Sun. Very nicely elucidated.

What aspects of the black women's appearance are they forced to "shift" in order to "conform" or "placate" those in the workplace? Is the pressure experienced forceful or subtle? How does the woman's experience differ from that of the black man as it relates to this "cause and effect"?

Princessblack · #19 (**permalink**) 11-17-2004, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truth78

I am reading this book and I just wanted to know some of your thoughts about this phenomenon called shifting.

Based on the African American Women's Voices Project, Shifting reveals that a large number of African American women feel pressure to compromise their true selves as they navigate America's racial and gender bigotry. Black women "shift." They change the expectations they have for themselves. Or they alter their outer appearance. They modify their speech. They shift 'white' as they head to work in the morning and 'black' as they come back home each night. They shift inward, internalizing the searing pain of the negative stereotypes that they encounter daily. And sometimes they shift by fighting back.
Do you ever feel that you are working overtime to put others at ease? Or that you have to leave your true self at the door in order to placate White colleagues? Do you downplay your abilities or strengths for fear of outshining Black men? Do you speak one way at the office, another way to your girlfriends? Is it sometimes a struggle to feel good about your looks? Are you constantly battling stereotypes?

Very very interesting thread in deed.

I donot shift at all. But sometimes I feel oppressed in being my true self. This is due to stereo types locked in peoples mind at work and in my surroundings. I must admist that being myself is a struggle around people. But I be myself anyway and alot don't like that..but oh well.

I think we should not suppress who we are or how we look. I tend to do that sometimes...but I am known to be a fighter and have this 'I couldn't care less attitude". Gees I really forgot exactly all I was to write...I am at work forgive me. I will return later with more.

Dejavoux · #20 (**permalink**) 11-17-2004, 01:53 PM

I am guilty of changing my speech pattern, but not only at work I change mine with every different environment. I always have I think its a self-defense mechanism that I developed when i was a child. From different people saying stuff like, "Uhhh she think she a white girl! or Ugh she talk like she's to much!" So I now talk like whomever I'm around. If I'm with my dads side of the family, they are all country folk and talk with a slow drawl, so that's how I talk when I'm with them. When I'm with my mom's side it's more of a proper talk with some slang, like ya'll and gonna etc. When I'm at work it's more of the "white girl talk" But unfortunately that is my actual speech pattern, I never thinking about how I'm speaking at work, but I am very concious anywhere else, until I get into my groove. I find it funny sometimes, like the closer I get to East Texas (where my dads family is from) the countrier I start talking. I just subconsiously work myself into my new speech pattern.

sunserie · #21 (**permalink**) 11-17-2004, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bountyx

Good point Sun. Very nicely elucidated.

Elucidate...You need further explanation, correct?

MissClassy · #22 (**permalink**) 11-17-2004, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Princessblack

Very very interesting thread in deed.

I donot shift at all. But sometimes I feel oppressed in being my true self. This is due to stereo types locked in peoples mind at work and in my surroundings. I must admist that being myself is a struggle around people. But I be myself anyway and alot don't like that..but oh well.

I think we should not suppress who we are or how we look. I tend to do that sometimes...but I am known to be a fighter and have this 'I couldn't care less attitude". Gees I really forgot exactly all I was to write...I am at work forgive me. I will return later with more.

So True PB!!!
We as women of colour should not suppress who we are AT ALL....
After all that is what makes us UNIQUE!! So if Big Brother or whoever can't accept and deall with it ...YES tooooo BAd.

It is unfortunate that even though we do not "supress" our selves we have had to conform to society's changing perception of us as women of colour.

And continue to reinforce who we are and the contributions we make in getting ahead in a male dominated corporate america and the Quilt of society.
We have made GREAT strides and should continue to move in that direction where women are taken seriously, with compromise!

Truth Where are you today???

Princessblack · #23 (**permalink**) 11-17-2004, 03:01 PM

You are so correct Miss Classy. And I will speak on one particular issue I am being faced now. I made a thread somewhere on this already though.

Even now in American's society they expect a girl like me SIZE 14 to be like a skinny and a size 3 or whatever. I am naturally a thick lady and I have big breasts and all ...it is not my fault my genes came out this way. Truthfully, I do need to excersice and TONE UP.. but my thickness will never go away. And while my other girlfriends are small and can fit in a Small T-shirt and wear it to work and still play it of professional, I can't.
So they look on me as if I am overweight and soooo fat. When I go to Jamaica.... it is totally opposite.

If they don't want to accept you for you, and see the true brauty inside of all the shabs that is on the outside, whether it be a man or a woman...then that's their problem. Loving you is more important before any one else can love you.

MissClassy · #24 (**permalink**) 11-17-2004, 03:05 PM

Amen Sistah!

bountyx · #25 (**permalink**) 11-17-2004, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunserie

Elucidate...You need further explanation, correct?

I guess so. I'm trying to understand just what modifications tend to be made in the effort to conform.

JamCan · #26 (**permalink**) 11-17-2004, 11:26 PM

Quote:

They shift 'white' as they head to work in the morning and 'black' as they come back home each night.

Even though I hate to say it but I think this is true. I am close friends with a lot of African people here and the difference between their "work" selves and their "play" selves is SO HUGE! We're lucky Canada is a huge melting pot of immigrants and culture is so easily accepted here but I still see it all the time. No where do I see an African lady wearing her traditional garments to work....but see them on the streets or at parties and sure enough they're wearing them.

I wonder what would happen if someone decided to wear it to work? East Indians do. In fact a few years ago there was a major news incident because an Indian police officer was fighting for his right to wear his turban instead of a police hat. On the one hand, its his culture and religion and it would be discriminating to NOT let him wear it. On the other hand...he's in our country on OUR police force and should wear the appropriate uniform.

bountyx · #27 (**permalink**) 11-18-2004, 04:24 PM

So far it's looking like the experiences of the black American women aren't that different from the experiences of other people who have to go into a work culture that is different from their own and alter aspects of their behaviour in order to conform or be understood.

#28 (**permalink**) 11-19-2004, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bountyx

So far it's looking like the experiences of the black American women aren't that different from the experiences of other people who have to go into a work culture that is different from their own and alter aspects of their behaviour in order to conform or be understood.

You still don't get it, Black women in America not only have to deal with racism but sexism as well. Our experience is unique from others that do not have to battle both sexism and racism. Its called a double jeopardy in social/psychology settings and Black women have historically been viewed as the last class of people for true equality. White people run America so in terms of allocation of resources, it goes like this-White men, white women, Black men and then Black women. This is why shifting has become coined an African American female experience because in order to make it in America one has to shift to a world that is dominated by white men. White women have the fact that they are white to keep them ahead of the game and the Black man has the fact that this world is still run by men so they have to face racism, no doubt but Black women have to also encounter sexism as well. But its clear from majority of your responses that you have no idea what it is like to live in America when you are Black.

Nandii · #29 (**permalink**) 11-19-2004, 07:50 PM

AMEN, Truth, to ALL of that!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truth78

You still don't get it, Black women in America not only have to deal with racism but sexism as well. Our experience is unique from others that do not have to battle both sexism and racism. Its called a double jeopardy in social/psychology settings and Black women have historically been viewed as the last class of people for true equality. White people run America so in terms of allocation of resources, it goes like this-White men, white women, Black men and then Black women. This is why shifting has become coined an African American female experience because in order to make it in America one has to shift to a world that is dominated by white men. White women have the fact that they are white to keep them ahead of the game and the Black man has the fact that this world is still run by men so they have to face racism, no doubt but Black women have to also encounter sexism as well. But its clear from majority of your responses that you have no idea what it is like to live in America when you are Black.

JaGoBi · #30 (**permalink**) 11-19-2004, 08:12 PM

Damn Truth, I love this topic. I've watched my sister go thru high school then go to college and get her degree. She entered corporate America bright-eyed & bushy-tailed. I've watched her grow and change as time went on. I'm 10 years younger than her, so some of the change I didn't notice until I got a bit older. But in my youth and ignorance, I've made comments that I thought to be beneficial of sorts to her. She would come home talking a certain way and saying certain things that didn't sound like her.... or so I thought. My stupid comments about her color rubbing off or turning off the 'white switch' were some of the silly, ignorant comments I've made. As I grew to understand more about life, corporate America and the struggle of our people, I've been able to reflect upon many of my actions with understanding and disdain. Understanding meaning my youthfulness and naievity. Disdain for the obvious... hurtful, uninformed statements that may have done more harm than good. I've read a few articles on 'shifting' some time ago, but Truth, thanks to you I think I'm going to go out and by this book. Then apologize to my sister and then applaud her for her struggle, perserverance, strength and wisdom... for not slapping the taste out of my mouth.....

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