Dangers of redeployment underplayed, say military experts
Dangers of redeployment underplayed, say military experts
Audrey Gillan, Sandra Laville and Richard Norton-Taylor
Friday November 5, 2004
The Guardian
The use of a suicide bomb against the Black Watch was an indication of how they had been placed in a much more vulnerable position than the government and the military had let on, commentators said last night.
Toby Dodge, an Iraq expert at Queen Mary, University of London, said: "There was a lot of talk as the troops were moved up from the south that they wouldn't be in any more danger than they had been. This fundamentally misunderstood the different nature of the insurgents they would be facing. The people they were fighting in the south were certainly fighting with Kalashnikovs and roadside bombs, they were fighting a specific battle.
"As they moved up out of Basra they were using a different kind of battle. Either there was a misunderstanding in public relations about different types of enemies, or a deliberate fudging of the issue. They have been sent to face a different, much greater danger.
"Their area of operations has just been expanded and the job that they are doing is increasing incrementally before our eyes. And the insurgency is a series of different insurgencies and they have moved into an area where the insurgents have perfected car bombings and suicide bombings. There has been a step change upwards of violence."
Dr Dodge warned that as the fight for Falluja started, the political temperature across Iraq would rise dramatically "especially in the area of the Black Watch, which would make them more vulnerable".
The deployment of the Black Watch was presented by Geoff Hoon, the defence secretary, in the Commons as a purely operational move taken on military advice. The foreign secretary later said that the troops would face no graver danger than that faced in their former deployment. The request was made by US commanders. Mr Hoon told sceptical MPs last week that US forces in Iraq needed the help of an experienced and well-trained British battlegroup. Of the 130,000 American troops in Iraq, fewer than a third had the "requisite combat capability".
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Last Tuesday Mr Hoon conceded that Black Watch soldiers would face immediate repercussions if the expected imminent all-out assault on the insurgent stronghold of Falluja went ahead.
He told the Commons defence committee that the US had made no "formal political request" for British military help.
British commanders in the summer refused several US requests for help around Baghdad, the Guardian has learned. They did so after they considered that operations they were asked to do would cause too many civilian casualties.
Last night, Lord Garden, Liberal Democrat peer and former assistant chief of defence staff, echoed Dr Dodge's fears and warned of the consequences of an attack on Falluja, as well as against the British getting more closely involved in US strategy. "It is difficult to see how we won't get sucked into American doctrine," he said.
Francis Tusa, defence analyst, said: "Unfortunately I think there will be a lot of Americans in Baghdad and central Iraq saying, 'Now you see what we have been dealing with for a long time.'
"Americans say they tend to open fire if someone is approaching checkpoints at the wrong speed because you simply don't know if they are suicide bombers or not.
"There are a whole series of problems that British forces have not had to deal with in the southern sector. To expect troops to be able to adapt to a very, very new situation in a very short space of time is asking a great deal."
Re: Dangers of redeployment underplayed, say military experts
[quote=Nandii]Dangers of redeployment underplayed, say military experts
Right again Nandii, it sounds like the Draft is a great possibility.
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The United States is dispatching an additional 1,500 troops to Iraq and extending the stays of more than 10,000 others to bolster security ahead of January's scheduled elections, the Pentagon said Wednesday.
The moves will bring the number of U.S. troops in Iraq from nearly 140,000 to an all-time high of about 150,000, the Pentagon said.
__________________
"Make your words soft and sweet, you never know when you have to eat them" Saudi Prince Bandra
"We are unknown to ourselves,
we seekers after knowledge."
Nietzsche
Re: Dangers of redeployment underplayed, say military experts
Stop chat bout insurgents or terrorist ( as the nazi were calling the french resistance), those people are fighting against troops of occupations who came to steal their ressources (oil) and fight against islam .
Long life and glory to the irakian resistance !
unuh americans are cowards who have killed more than 100 000 innocent men,women and children .
This is a crime against humanity and G.Bush should be judge for that but no matta god a go judge him and all the satan followers .
More Fyah fi di swine dem !
Re: Dangers of redeployment underplayed, say military experts
The USA should get out of Iraq. 50% of US citizens are against G. Bush. I did not vote for him nor did my family or friends. We are under the capitalist thumb as much as any other country. This is part of the reason so many of us are dreaming of leaving the USA. All world citizens should join any protest against the invasion of Iraq that they are able to get to. We must stand against tyranny.
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Merry meet, Merry part and Merry meet again
Re: Dangers of redeployment underplayed, say military experts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat
The USA should get out of Iraq. 50% of US citizens are against G. Bush. I did not vote for him nor did my family or friends. We are under the capitalist thumb as much as any other country. This is part of the reason so many of us are dreaming of leaving the USA. All world citizens should join any protest against the invasion of Iraq that they are able to get to. We must stand against tyranny.
You said a mouthful, Tiamat. I didn't vote for him either.
Re: Dangers of redeployment underplayed, say military experts
Not only why be a casualty but even more important why be a murderer of innocent people. Why turn into a guilt ridden, emotionally crippled PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder) victim who is unable to bond with loved ones? I work with Viet Nam veterans who are in chemical dependency treatment so I do know what I am talking about. "Just following orders" does not last as justification much past a few years back in the states. Bless the veterans and armed forces and bring the troops home.
__________________
Merry meet, Merry part and Merry meet again
Re: Dangers of redeployment underplayed, say military experts
It look like Mr. Bush has opened a Pandora's Box
Nuclear Showdown threaten
An increasingly belligerent North Korea has warned of "total war" with the United States, predicting a conflict with it would develop into a nuclear one.
And in a further deterioration of the nuclear crisis, the chief of the North Korean Army, Kim Yong-chun, called on his generals to win a "brilliant victory in the final showdown with US imperialists".
The White House said it was ready to meet any threat, but at the same time, tried to avoid a sense of impending crisis, reaffirming its commitment to a diplomatic solution.
On the other side of the globe Iranian leader said if you attack us "there
will be a burning hell.
I see the Draft written on the walls.
__________________
"Make your words soft and sweet, you never know when you have to eat them" Saudi Prince Bandra
"We are unknown to ourselves,
we seekers after knowledge."
Nietzsche
Re: Dangers of redeployment underplayed, say military experts
Quote:
Originally Posted by paz
It look like Mr. Bush has opened a Pandora's Box
Nuclear Showdown threaten
An increasingly belligerent North Korea has warned of "total war" with the United States, predicting a conflict with it would develop into a nuclear one.
And in a further deterioration of the nuclear crisis, the chief of the North Korean Army, Kim Yong-chun, called on his generals to win a "brilliant victory in the final showdown with US imperialists".
The White House said it was ready to meet any threat, but at the same time, tried to avoid a sense of impending crisis, reaffirming its commitment to a diplomatic solution.
On the other side of the globe Iranian leader said if you attack us "there
will be a burning hell.
I see the Draft written on the walls.
People are not paying attention to all the evil that Bush has and continue to do, if the war continues as is, there is going to have be a draft soilders are dying everyday I'm sure we don't know fully how many actually have died, its sad.
Re: Dangers of redeployment underplayed, say military experts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Truth78
People are not paying attention to all the evil that Bush has and continue to do, if the war continues as is, there is going to have be a draft soilders are dying everyday I'm sure we don't know fully how many actually have died, its sad.
It's too sad, I'm sure you have heard of his budget cuts,
Medicaid, Mendicare, school programs, even veteran's benefits.
the only safety net poor older people have Social Security
(a weak one at that)he wants to f--k with that too .. meanwhile
where are the rallies, the marches, what happen to our leaders
__________________
"Make your words soft and sweet, you never know when you have to eat them" Saudi Prince Bandra
"We are unknown to ourselves,
we seekers after knowledge."
Nietzsche
Re: Dangers of redeployment underplayed, say military experts
Quote:
Originally Posted by paz
It's too sad, I'm sure you have heard of his budget cuts,
Medicaid, Mendicare, school programs, even veteran's benefits.
the only safety net poor older people have Social Security
(a weak one at that)he wants to f--k with that too .. meanwhile
where are the rallies, the marches, what happen to our leaders
I agree we should be protesting him everyday, marches and everything until he gets tired and just resigns(of course he would never do this but its nice to wish).
Re: Dangers of redeployment underplayed, say military experts
And, Paz, North Korea is dead serious. They will bomb us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by paz
It look like Mr. Bush has opened a Pandora's Box
Nuclear Showdown threaten
An increasingly belligerent North Korea has warned of "total war" with the United States, predicting a conflict with it would develop into a nuclear one.
And in a further deterioration of the nuclear crisis, the chief of the North Korean Army, Kim Yong-chun, called on his generals to win a "brilliant victory in the final showdown with US imperialists".
The White House said it was ready to meet any threat, but at the same time, tried to avoid a sense of impending crisis, reaffirming its commitment to a diplomatic solution.
On the other side of the globe Iranian leader said if you attack us "there
will be a burning hell.
Re: Dangers of redeployment underplayed, say military experts
We the people are tired. The wealthy get wealthier and will use our working class and poor to fight for their greater wealth. The wealthy control our government and the police. Protesters can't get near the white house or any speech made by the president. The police keep us afraid. The wealthy make money off war contracts and oil. The poor are set up to fight amoungst ourselves and to believe that if we just work hard enough, we too can be rich. So therefore those who are poor have brought it upon themselves. We are fed lies and act like sheep. My father used to say we are like mushrooms, kept in the dark and fed bull****.
__________________
Merry meet, Merry part and Merry meet again
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