AMEN Good preaching.

What really is the bone of contention with that woman giving birth? Is she really selfish for wanting what millions of women have wanted?

Yes Bounty ,she is selfish cause yu don't make a child for yu , i mean it's not like buying something that yu want, she knew that there was a lot of risks for the babies to die but she didn't care, and now one of the baby died and the other one is suffering and may also die.Yu don't make a baby for yourself, you are giving life and yu must protect that life, give good education, affection and care : that's the real , true love .
If she wasn't so selfish she wouldn't have taken so much risks with the life of babies, and would worry about the future of those children knowing that she probably won't live long enough give them an education , love and care what they deserve. A child need a mother and a father , i didn't hear about father neither.

Yes the devil is active, but he isn't more powerful than God, and he cannot do anything that God doesn't allow to happen - no matter how terrible it may seem. And yes, in the end, the devil does lose and God and His people are victorious. That's why I take the view that if God allowed it to happen, there must be a reason, and in the long run, He's still in control.[/quote]


We have a different point of view , you think that god allows everything to happen and i don't if i resume.

God has given his law to follow and live in righthousness in the bible ,he talked to Moïse and gave him the "ten commandement" , now if he says that man shall not kill that means, that he won't stop man from killing another man but that it's a capital sin and that the murderer will be judge and will burn in hell for that crime he comitted. but that doe'snt mean that if you kill someone ,there was a reason why you did it and that god didn't stop you because of that reason .
I understand your point of view cause yes he allows we to live and also to live in sin but that doesn't mean that because he allows those things to happen that he does agree nor support bad things that are happening in the world.
He doesn't agree with killing innocent people, with injustice ,ok those things do happen everyday everywhere and he allows it to happen but that doesn't mean that it's not an abomination to him,right ?
Your last argument is dangerous and very fatalist '' if god allowed it to happen there must be a reason'' , then you think that if the nazi killed 6 millions jews , there must be a such a good reason to allow such a slaughter?
Do yu think there is a reason for a baby to be raped or killed by a bomb ?
i could ask you plenty questions like that but i know you understand what i'm saying so i don't have to go further .
The problem is that if you think that way, then you would have think that god allowed the nazi to killed millions of jews so why fight against dem to stop it or same thing with the slavery, why fight to stop it if god allowed it to happen; you understand how thinking like that is fatalist and dangerous.

We must fight against evil and not only look and say :"after all god allowed it to happen", we have to make a better world for our children and i personally think that thos experience and manipulation on foetus are not contributing to a better world for tomorrow.
And i repeat that in this case she should have adopted a child long time ago instead of playing with life and future of babies at 66 year's old.

Bless up!

No parent I know of, who conciously makes a decision to have a child, does so without some basic desire to derive joy and satisfaction from caring for and loving that child. In that regard, I believe that we do, in a way, make children for ourselves. We make them to carry on our family name, to see a likeness of ourselves, and to have another life with which to share our love.

All parent's take risks by bringing life into this world. Do you know all the things that can go wrong during pregnancy, after childbirth, not to mention during every stage of that childs life after that? Should parents be concerned that they are morally remiss by wanting to have a child in todays society which is rife with war, disease, and strife?

I cannot see anything wrong with giving life. Life is a gift from God. Yes some people are born into less fortunate circumstances, but their life is still a gift. No human being has the right to say that another person should not have been born. We don't know how long that other child will live. Their have been babies born premature in very feeble condition who have gone on to thrive and lead productive, normal lives. Who is to say that the birth of that child won't serve some good in this world? No human can make that judgement.

Like I said earlier, we don't know what kind of support system she has that could help care for that child. From the story, we do know that she was some kind of professor, and I'm assuming that means that she lives fairly comfortably. So providing for the child, to me, doesn't seem like an issue. As for love, I don't see why she wouldn't be able to love the child. The ability to love doesn't diminish with age. If that were the case, then many grandparents wouldn't have the significance which they do.

I will agree with you, that the ideal family structure of a marred mother and father, is in my opinion, the right way to go. If this woman intentionally didn't follow that route, then I would be inclined to disagree with how she went about it, from that perspective.

Everything on the planet that happens, happens because God has allowed it to happen. We can't presume to know why God allows certain things to happen. All we can say is that, it happened, therefore, He must have allowed it to happen for some reason. I agree with you, that he doesn't support the bad things that happen nor is it His wish that people suffer etc. I don't think that view is a fatalist one per se. The Bible teaches that in the end, God takes action which sets everything right, and which is fair to all. Everybody gets treated fairly by Him when judgement, reward and consequence is meted out.

All this is to say that for this lady, I won't condemn her because she wanted children, nor would I condemn the child that was born - life is life and it is blessed by God. I agree though, that if she did stray from the ideal of having a present father etc. then she went about things the wrong way.

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"Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake." - Matthew 5 v11 KJV

Very waggish indeed.

Here we have a different point of view and a different philosophic appreciation of the verb "to allow" because i believe that god just watch and judge, he let us to choose between good or evil , between good actions and sin , he allows us to kill innocents people but doesn't support that badness ,god just hate that kind of sin.
Yes the bible teaches that in the end, god takes action which sets everything right but god also says that we should stand up and fight for justice and rights.
and who know when is the end , should we live in bondage all our life and accept it ? I don't think so, we must know what is bad and fight against it .
Is what this woman did bad ? Ok she gave life that's good but the way is very bad .

very intresting discussion indeed ...

Respekt.

Sorry i made mistake with "the quote thing" , some of my answers are in the quote.

Errare humanum est, perseverare diaboliqum !

When it comes to childbirth, from the start, there are great risks. Some people are predisposed to greater risk because of genetics, or their environment. Some are exposed to risk because of their behaviour. It is in cases where peoples behaviour, which they have the greatest control over, puts themselves and others at risk, where I feel the issue of morality comes in. I will accept that at that age, the woman took on more risk in being pregnant than if she had done it at a younger age, but taking a risk to bring forth a life is not the same as taking a risk which can harm a life. Her getting pregnant isn't the same in terms of risk as her driving drunk - if you catch what I'm getting at.

But does the fact that she may not live to see the child grow to a certain age make her ineligible to raise and love a child for the time that she is able? If that were the case, then mothers with HIV, or those who contract other terminal illnesses should do what? Give up their children because they won't see them grow past a certain age? What if there are valuable life lessons that this woman can teach to the child, while she is around, that no one else could pass on? We as human beings can't see all the angles, so we shouldn't be too quick to judge.

Yes, we do differ in how we view "to allow". I believe that God does more than just watch and judge, He also guides us. We may chose to ignore Him, but He is there waiting to help us when we need it.
Yes the bible teaches that in the end, god takes action which sets everything right but god also says that we should stand up and fight for justice and rights.
and who know when is the end , should we live in bondage all our life and accept it ? I don't think so, we must know what is bad and fight against it .
Is what this woman did bad ? Ok she gave life that's good but the way is very bad .

Respec' to yuh as well mi bredda.

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"Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake." - Matthew 5 v11 KJV

Very waggish indeed.

Thank you Dreadlion!!! I do believe things happen for a reason, but not for one moment can I understand the PURPOSE of SUFFERATION!! Why are there so many people STARVING in Africa, India, etc? What PURPOSE does it serve? Why put people on this earth to suffer? As Dreadlion stated, there are plenty of questions WHY, etc.

Don't tell me about God's WILL???? Or God will PROVIDE???? No!! Gad nah provide a ting!!! Wi deh pan wi own!! Ah soh *mi* believe.

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Life is not a race, but a journey to be savoured, every step of the way....

"The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong." - Ghandi

"Hate the sin and not the sinner is a precept which though easy enough to understand is rarely practiced, and that is why the poison of hatred spreads in the world." - Ghandi

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Dem neva Know,But dem Know Now !!

dat woman need a kick!!!

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“A woman should hide her heart so deep in Christ that a man would need to seek God first to find her" -Maya Angelou

GOD BROUGHT ME LAUGHTER
Gen. 21:6, Sarah said, "God has brought me laughter, and everyone who hears about this will laugh with me.""

Imagine a ninety year old woman nursing and caring for a baby. We would be in shock. Yet, that is exactly what happened to Sarah. God had promised her a child and had performed a miracle to fulfil His promise.

Isaac's name actually means "laughter" or "he laughs". As if people wouldn't laugh enough at a child having parents that are one hundred years old! However, Sarah also names Isaac "laughter". That would certainly draw attention to the child.

Yet, Sarah most likely had other things in mind. She had waited decades to have a child. She had grieved when Hagar had become pregnant with Abraham's child.

Finally, she has her son. Sarah must have been a lady who couldn't quit smiling. A son! In her old age! A direct miracle from God!

I know I always smile when I hear of a miracle - healing or intervention of some kind from God!

Has God brought us laughter recently? Has He created a miracle in our life or the lives of people near and dear to us?

God is always doing miracles! It is up to us to open our eyes and look for what He is doing around us.

If we watch for the miracles of God we, too, will be filled with laughter!


Pastor Glen
Copyright © 1999 Worldwide Church of God Spokane

Satan's Role in Causing Suffering
Satan is a major reason for people's suffering. The Bible tells of "that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan" (Revelation 20:2), who rules over mankind as the "prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience" (Ephesians 2:2). As "the god of this age" (2 Corinthians 4:4), Satan is the instigator of much of humanity's misery.

I may not have been 66 years old but I did have my last son later on up in age and I am just as good as a mother as I was when I had my oldest child. Wisdom comes with age and I love being the mother of 4 and the grandmother of 5 and I raised all of mine and love every minute of it and would not trade being a mother for nothing in the world at any age.

There are women out there who can't even have children so why would I choose not to have a child at an older age or any responsible age just because a humanbeing wants to dictate my life and say what I should and should not do.....or what is right or not right for me in my life....Only God stands in authority over my life...not man! I chose not to take one of the test to see if my son was going to be healthy or not because I knew in my heart that he was going to be and so I had a healthy 8lb baby boy who will be 14year old next month Jan. 2006 and my oldest daughter is 30yrs old!

So who cares what anyone thinks this is my life and I do what I want to do and God did not make you in charge of my body. I take care of what's mines and have done a good job doing it tooooooo!

God Bless you bountyx and Happy New Year! You are a man of wisdom and although we may not see eye to eye on some things I respect you more then you will ever know.

I also understand that here on ETJ we are not all always going to be in agreement on any of our threads, and that is to be expected. But what makes ETJ site so interesting and knowledgeable is that everyone comes to the board with different views and ideas and it's because we are all beautiful indivisuals unique and different in our own ways.

But what will make ETJ even more beautiful is that in the end we can accept one another in peace, love and harmony with respecting how each other feels as members on ETJ. I for one will always live the life that I love and I will always love the life that I live just keepin it real and being me no matter what anyone thinks. I am not here to change people's way of thinking because that will never be my intention but I only come here to voice my opinion with or without anyones approval....I am not trying to be anyones hero because I am my own hero and lovin it......

Peace and Blessings Star

girl u do wat whats makes u happy ... fear God not ppls opinions...much love xx

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Thanks a bunch! I am so lovin me until I just can't get enough of kissing my ownself......Lol Lol Lol Happy New Year! justsimplifyit...Yahooooooo!