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Old 10-19-2006, 09:43 PM
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Why Aren't We Shocked??

Why Aren't We Shocked?
By BOB HERBERT


"Who needs a brain when you have these?"

- message on an Abercrombie & Fitch T-shirt for young women

In the recent shootings at an Amish schoolhouse in rural Pennsylvania and a large public high school in Colorado, the killers went out of their way to separate the girls from the boys, and then deliberately attacked only the girls.

Ten girls were shot and five killed at the Amish school. One girl was killed and a number of others were molested in the Colorado attack.

In the widespread coverage that followed these crimes, very little was made of the fact that only girls were targeted. Imagine if a gunman had gone into a school, separated the kids up on the basis of race or religion, and then shot only the black kids. Or only the white kids. Or only the Jews.

There would have been thunderous outrage. The country would have first recoiled in horror, and then mobilized in an effort to eradicate that kind of murderous bigotry. There would have been calls for action and reflection.
And the attack would have been seen for what it really was: a hate crime.

None of that occurred because these were just girls, and we have become so accustomed to living in a society saturated with misogyny that violence against females is more or less to be expected. Stories about the rape, murder and mutilation of women and girls are staples of the news, as familiar to us as weather forecasts. The startling aspect of the Pennsylvania attack was that this terrible thing happened at a school in Amish country, not that it happened to girls.

The disrespectful, degrading, contemptuous treatment of women is so pervasive and so mainstream that it has just about lost its ability to shock. Guys at sporting events and other public venues have shown no qualms about raising an insistent chant to nearby women to show their breasts. An ad for a major long-distance telephone carrier shows three apparently naked women holding a billing statement from a competitor. The text asks, "When was the last time you got screwed?"

An ad for Clinique moisturizing lotion shows a woman's face with the lotion spattered across it to simulate the climactic shot of a porn video.

We have a problem. Staggering amounts of violence are unleashed on women every day, and there is no escaping the fact that in the most sensational stories, large segments of the population are titillated by that violence.
We've been watching the sexualized image of the murdered 6-year-old JonBenet Ramsey for 10 years. JonBenet is dead. Her mother is dead. And we're still watching the video of this poor child prancing in lipstick and high heels.

What have we learned since then? That there's big money to be made from thongs, spandex tops and sexy makeovers for little girls. In a misogynistic culture, it's never too early to drill into the minds of girls that what really matters is their appearance and their ability to please men sexually.

A girl or woman is sexually assaulted every couple of minutes or so in the U.S. The number of seriously battered wives and girlfriends is far beyond the ability of any agency to count. We're all implicated in this carnage because the relentless violence against women and girls is linked at its core to the wider society's casual willingness to dehumanize women and girls, to see them first and foremost as sexual vessels - objects - and never, ever as the equals of men.

"Once you dehumanize somebody, everything is possible," said Taina Bien-Aimé, executive director of the women's advocacy group Equality Now.

That was never clearer than in some of the extreme forms of pornography that have spread like nuclear waste across mainstream America. Forget the embarrassed, inhibited raincoat crowd of the old days. Now Mr. Solid Citizen can come home, log on to this $7 billion mega-industry and get his kicks watching real women being beaten and sexually assaulted on Web sites with names like "Ravished Bride" and "Rough Sex - Where Whores Get Owned."

Then, of course, there's gangsta rap, and the video games where the players themselves get to maul and molest women, the rise of pimp culture (the Academy Award-winning song this year was "It's Hard Out Here for a Pimp"), and on and on.

You're deluded if you think this is all about fun and games. It's all part of a devastating continuum of misogyny that at its farthest extreme touches down in places like the one-room Amish schoolhouse in normally quiet Nickel Mines, Pa.


Copyright 2006 The New York Times Company
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Old 10-19-2006, 10:14 PM
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Re: Why Aren't We Shocked??

interesting read jammie, it seems to me that women / females are targeted for many violent reasons. and some men like the gratification of commiting violence and display violent tendencies as well as distrupted behaviour. these "MEN" were brought with overly strict parental guideship and morals too. that seems to lead a majority of women turning to other women for comfort and secret sharing.
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Old 10-19-2006, 10:31 PM
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Re: Why Aren't We Shocked??

Why aren't we shocked? Hmm...it seems that we are bombarded with these images and the News stations are repeatedly showing crimes of violence...its seems that many have become jaded. Advertising has been doing this for years...we all know sex sells. If you are targeting the average male...just put a scantily clad, attractive female and include the products name and you are set. Turning a female (or male) into an object for sexual gratification de-humanizes them and makes it much easier to commit acts of violence. Does it make it right? Of course not. The real question is...what can be done to actually change it?

Unfortunately, it seems that in an effort to make things "equal" between the sexes...advertising is now starting to focus more on targeting males as sexual objects. IMHO, it feels as though we are going backwards instead of forwards...
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Old 10-19-2006, 11:14 PM
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Re: Why Aren't We Shocked??

This article was emailed to me by my girlfriend who's been working in Kingston for the last 2 years on gender issues in Jamaica. I guess, unfortunately its ALWAYS an issue.
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Old 10-20-2006, 12:43 AM
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Re: Why Aren't We Shocked??

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamCan View Post
This article was emailed to me by my girlfriend who's been working in Kingston for the last 2 years on gender issues in Jamaica. I guess, unfortunately its ALWAYS an issue.
And if not treated right could possibly always remain one...more and more respect for women is being lost and even as social workers, womens agencies and other organisations try their best, there is hardly anything one can do with the present generation.

Starting with the younger generation might be a help for our furture outcome. but social disadvantages in its various forms will be a major contributing factor to its continuance.
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Old 10-20-2006, 11:28 AM
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Re: Why Aren't We Shocked??

Even in fear of bashing, I am going to speak my mind here.

It seems ironic to me that on a board where outrageous sexual references are the norm, this thread would raise such consciences. Every single day, I read about porn, lesbianism, sexual positions, rape fantasies (remember when I was bashed on this one for stating my position on that?), the glorification of dressing and dancing provocatively, etc.

I personally am not a participant in most of the above mentioned threads because it is not in me to discuss some private matters so publically. And, I am not bashing those who choose to discuss them. It is your perogative and I do respect your silliness and convictions.

What I am asking is for everyone to look around and then honestly say we on this board are not guilty of perpetuating some of the dehumanizing behavior as well.
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Old 10-20-2006, 12:04 PM
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Re: Why Aren't We Shocked??

J.G. glad you spoke your mind... not sure what you were trying to say at all. We are perpetuating dehumanizing behaviour towards women by discussing racy topics on etj? On a forum that is predominantly to by women, the views on any of these topics tend to be overwhelmingly from a female perspective. GG talking about masturbation, JamCam and Gertrude discussing their lesbian desires, the rest of you posting threads with topics like 'size matters' and similar.... none of this seems particularly misogynistic to me. I think your indictment of etj is a little unwarranted, personally.

But on the topic at hand... I agree that our society in general overlooks many things that promote inequality of the sexes. It is a sad fact, and it would be nice if it could change. However, the basic premise of the article is off-base. We all WERE shocked at what went on in that schoolhouse. The killing of those girls was horrific, and the fact that they were girls rather than blacks, gays, jews, whatever...did in no way mitigate our condemnation of what was done. Mr. Herbert has a vivid imagination.

In Montreal, 10 years ago we had an incident in a college where a guy who was upset at women in general went in and shot a bunch of female engineering students. Nobody ignored the message there... in fact that tragedy became a focal point for many organized efforts against violence against women. To this day candlelight vigils, marches, etc all are held in remembrance of what happened and used as a way to draw attention to problems that are still with us.
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Old 10-20-2006, 12:12 PM
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Re: Why Aren't We Shocked??

I think her point is, and i could be wrong is, that people make light of things that are very serious, and lately overly so. It seems if you look in most threads there is always a reference to something sexual.
I personally don't read them and ignore them, but I am aware of a few people that are no longer on as much, because of all that.
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Old 10-20-2006, 12:15 PM
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Re: Why Aren't We Shocked??

We do have the odd serious conversation here, but as J.C. always says: etj is 90% jokes. I'm sure there are serious places those people can go to contemplate their navels.

I'll say one thing though... of all the caribbean forums I have belonged to, this is the one with the LEAST amount of sex chat... and the LEAST amount of str8 vulgarity, by far. Anyone who doen't believe me, need only go read some others.
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Old 10-20-2006, 12:16 PM
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Re: Why Aren't We Shocked??

I hear ya Urban, I only belong to this one and 1 other, and the other not as racy as this. I choose not read certain things or I do and don't comment.
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Old 10-20-2006, 12:27 PM
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Re: Why Aren't We Shocked??

really? I'm surprised. Even this one gets too much sometimes though... talking about sex is boring. It's not a spectator sport, lol.
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Old 10-20-2006, 12:31 PM
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Re: Why Aren't We Shocked??

True Urban, true.
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Old 10-20-2006, 12:41 PM
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Re: Why Aren't We Shocked??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban_DK View Post
J.G. glad you spoke your mind... not sure what you were trying to say at all. We are perpetuating dehumanizing behaviour towards women by discussing racy topics on etj? On a forum that is predominantly to by women, the views on any of these topics tend to be overwhelmingly from a female perspective. GG talking about masturbation, JamCam and Gertrude discussing their lesbian desires, the rest of you posting threads with topics like 'size matters' and similar.... none of this seems particularly misogynistic to me. I think your indictment of etj is a little unwarranted, personally.

But on the topic at hand... I agree that our society in general overlooks many things that promote inequality of the sexes. It is a sad fact, and it would be nice if it could change. However, the basic premise of the article is off-base. We all WERE shocked at what went on in that schoolhouse. The killing of those girls was horrific, and the fact that they were girls rather than blacks, gays, jews, whatever...did in no way mitigate our condemnation of what was done. Mr. Herbert has a vivid imagination.

In Montreal, 10 years ago we had an incident in a college where a guy who was upset at women in general went in and shot a bunch of female engineering students. Nobody ignored the message there... in fact that tragedy became a focal point for many organized efforts against violence against women. To this day candlelight vigils, marches, etc all are held in remembrance of what happened and used as a way to draw attention to problems that are still with us.
Regardless of who makes the comments, the fact that they are made in jest so often shows me that we are just as guilty of glorifying deviant sexual behavior as anyone else.

You do know it is you I am referring to when I say I took all kind of backlash for stating my mind on the rape fantasy thread, right?
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Old 10-20-2006, 12:48 PM
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Re: Why Aren't We Shocked??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jomo's girl View Post
Regardless of who makes the comments, the fact that they are made in jest so often shows me that we are just as guilty of glorifying deviant sexual behavior as anyone else.

You do know it is you I am referring to when I say I took all kind of backlash for stating my mind on the rape fantasy thread, right?
Deviant is a matter of perspective. Jamaicans call gay deviant; many people (probably you) would call me deviant.

Like I said before, you are entitled to your opinion, and entitled to participate in or abstain from any sort of sex you like, as long as you stay away from kids and animals. Making judgements on others' likes/dislikes doesn't serve any purpose; it doesn't make them change their desires, and doesn't make you look any smarter. Let God do the judging, IMO. Live and let live.
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Old 10-20-2006, 12:49 PM
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Re: Why Aren't We Shocked??

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamCan View Post
Why Aren't We Shocked?
By BOB HERBERT


"Who needs a brain when you have these?"

- message on an Abercrombie & Fitch T-shirt for young women

In the recent shootings at an Amish schoolhouse in rural Pennsylvania and a large public high school in Colorado, the killers went out of their way to separate the girls from the boys, and then deliberately attacked only the girls.

Ten girls were shot and five killed at the Amish school. One girl was killed and a number of others were molested in the Colorado attack.

In the widespread coverage that followed these crimes, very little was made of the fact that only girls were targeted. Imagine if a gunman had gone into a school, separated the kids up on the basis of race or religion, and then shot only the black kids. Or only the white kids. Or only the Jews.

There would have been thunderous outrage. The country would have first recoiled in horror, and then mobilized in an effort to eradicate that kind of murderous bigotry. There would have been calls for action and reflection.
And the attack would have been seen for what it really was: a hate crime.

None of that occurred because these were just girls, and we have become so accustomed to living in a society saturated with misogyny that violence against females is more or less to be expected. Stories about the rape, murder and mutilation of women and girls are staples of the news, as familiar to us as weather forecasts. The startling aspect of the Pennsylvania attack was that this terrible thing happened at a school in Amish country, not that it happened to girls.

The disrespectful, degrading, contemptuous treatment of women is so pervasive and so mainstream that it has just about lost its ability to shock. Guys at sporting events and other public venues have shown no qualms about raising an insistent chant to nearby women to show their breasts. An ad for a major long-distance telephone carrier shows three apparently naked women holding a billing statement from a competitor. The text asks, "When was the last time you got screwed?"

An ad for Clinique moisturizing lotion shows a woman's face with the lotion spattered across it to simulate the climactic shot of a porn video.

We have a problem. Staggering amounts of violence are unleashed on women every day, and there is no escaping the fact that in the most sensational stories, large segments of the population are titillated by that violence.
We've been watching the sexualized image of the murdered 6-year-old JonBenet Ramsey for 10 years. JonBenet is dead. Her mother is dead. And we're still watching the video of this poor child prancing in lipstick and high heels.

What have we learned since then? That there's big money to be made from thongs, spandex tops and sexy makeovers for little girls. In a misogynistic culture, it's never too early to drill into the minds of girls that what really matters is their appearance and their ability to please men sexually.

A girl or woman is sexually assaulted every couple of minutes or so in the U.S. The number of seriously battered wives and girlfriends is far beyond the ability of any agency to count. We're all implicated in this carnage because the relentless violence against women and girls is linked at its core to the wider society's casual willingness to dehumanize women and girls, to see them first and foremost as sexual vessels - objects - and never, ever as the equals of men.

"Once you dehumanize somebody, everything is possible," said Taina Bien-Aimé, executive director of the women's advocacy group Equality Now.

That was never clearer than in some of the extreme forms of pornography that have spread like nuclear waste across mainstream America. Forget the embarrassed, inhibited raincoat crowd of the old days. Now Mr. Solid Citizen can come home, log on to this $7 billion mega-industry and get his kicks watching real women being beaten and sexually assaulted on Web sites with names like "Ravished Bride" and "Rough Sex - Where Whores Get Owned."

Then, of course, there's gangsta rap, and the video games where the players themselves get to maul and molest women, the rise of pimp culture (the Academy Award-winning song this year was "It's Hard Out Here for a Pimp"), and on and on.

You're deluded if you think this is all about fun and games. It's all part of a devastating continuum of misogyny that at its farthest extreme touches down in places like the one-room Amish schoolhouse in normally quiet Nickel Mines, Pa.


Copyright 2006 The New York Times Company
True....and disheartning..... **shaking head** and this is what my 7 year old son is growing up with......and has to look forward to.

It is articles like this ....that only confirm my belief that children need both parents in thier life and in the event that same is not feasible for what ever the reason....ie death, it is imperitive that the adult acting on behalf of both parents, make the time to sit down and talk/explain/educate our children. As they are our tomorrow and they need consistant guidence .... and consistant love. I am strict with my son and I know there are people that think I am to hard on him....and he is only seven.....but now I feel is the time to teach him, he is not going to be seven forever he is growing and before I know it he will be 17 and then a man .... someones boyfriend and then husband, someones father....and I hope to Christ that when that day comes he is a better man for having had me as his mother..... and nothing like the men described above.

The story has me feeling physically ill.......ugh!!!!
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