Is it true that guys avoid powerful gals because their egos can’t handle it? Relationship experts and real men weigh in.
Roundtable participants
Diane Mapes, author, How to Date in a Post-Dating World
Steve Nakamoto, author, Men Are Like Fish: What Every Woman Needs to Know about Catching a Man
Andy, 30, entrepreneur
Craig, 33, recruiter
Alex, 25, lawyer
Q: There’s been a lot of talk lately that successful, career-oriented women have trouble creating lasting relationships because men feel intimidated. Do you think that is true?
Steve Nakamoto: The traditional male role is to be the provider and protector. If a guy loses that, he may feel like he’s losing his pride. Many men feel like their identity is wrapped up in what they do and how much they earn. It’s an external validation of their success, and a woman who is more successful than they are may threaten how they view themselves.
Craig: Many men do get intimidated by a woman who earns more or is more successful. They’re told that they’re supposed to be the breadwinners. I think it’s going to take awhile for society to get used to the fact that with more women working, traditional gender roles don’t necessarily apply.
Andy: Of course it depends on the man, but to feel financially superfluous is emasculating. No one wants to be reminded that he’s a failure, and I can definitely see that putting additional pressure on a relationship.
Q: Do you tend to date women who are more or less successful than you?
Andy: I generally date women who make less money than me. I think the reason is I take my career very seriously. I know that sounds arrogant, but I'm a pretty driven guy, more driven than most men and women. That said, the girl I'm dating now makes more money than I do—a lot more! However, that’s mainly because I’m starting my own company. We both know that over the long-term, I have the potential to make much more than she does.
Craig: I was engaged once when very young to a woman who was not career-minded and wanted to live off of me. It was a godsend we didn’t get married! Since then, I’ve dated women who’ve made more or made less than me, but it didn’t affect the relationship. If you’re with someone you have fun with, why should it matter? I don’t want a wallflower, I want someone who can look after herself.
Alex: As it has turned out, the women I date are not as successful as I am, but that is purely coincidental. I don't discriminate based on career.
Q: What kind of problems can arise when a woman is more successful than her date?
Andy: The worst thing she can do is emasculate the guy she's dating in public with respect to money. Comments like, “Oh, I wish we could come with you, but Bob here doesn't make enough money,” said in front of a group of people will make Bob start looking for another woman.
Steve Nakamoto: Successful women tend to work really long hours. Some men may feel like the woman is too busy and doesn’t have time for them. A man who wants to be taken care of by a woman won’t do well in this kind of relationship.
Diane Mapes: I think some women inadvertently send the message that “I’m too busy or too important for you,” and no one likes to sit down at a table with someone who goes on and on about their accomplishments or how busy they are. With online dating, the whole process is accelerated: There’s a tendency for women to dump their resume in a guy’s lap, and it can be overwhelming.
Q: Should a woman try to play down her achievements when meeting a guy for the first time?
Diane Mapes: Absolutely not. That’s the old message that a woman needs to trick a man into marrying her. Who wants someone you need to win with deceit?
Andy: I wouldn't say a woman should "dumb down" her achievements when meeting a guy for the first time, but she doesn't need to emphasize them, either. Let a first meeting be what it should be: A chance for two people to get to know each other, not get to know where they went to school, how much money they make and how powerful they are.
Q: What advice would you give to a woman who feels that her financial success is intimidating to men and is getting in the way of her forming a lasting relationship?
Diane Mapes: Women who are very accomplished tend to have very high expectations—perhaps unrealistically so. It’s tough to find someone who seems just right for you, and successful women may have a smaller dating pool because they won’t necessarily “date down” financially like many men are willing to do. I’d advise women to be open-minded. There are a lot of really smart, substantial guys who are attractive in non-traditional ways.
Steve Nakamoto: Women need to do certain things to make sure money is not an issue. For example, let him romance you, spend money on you, even if he doesn’t make much. She should also understand that she shouldn’t buy him expensive gifts—he’ll feel like he can’t reciprocate. Once a man is in love, it’s not as big a deal. At that point, even an intimidated guy will let down his guard.
Andy: The vast majority of guys will be sensitive to the woman’s clout, so her being sensitive to it as well is a big first step. Women can say “It's not my fault that I make more” or “That’s his issue, not mine,” but the problem there is, the connection between two people is being seen only in financial terms. So my advice would be, stop thinking so much about money! Focus elsewhere, and see what develops between the two people involved without a price tag hanging over each of your heads.
__________________
Langston Hughes
Hold fast to dreams for if dreams die, life is a broken winged bird that cannot fly.
I know that some guys are like that... but it strikes me as absolutely ridiculous. I love a smart woman... in fact I personally think that brains and a quick wit are sexy. Also, I don't need to make more money to know that I'm a man... there is something between my legs that reminds me daily. If my woman was to make more than me--cool, we'd just buy a better car.
I agree, I think that SOME but not all men have a problem with this. I think the ones that do have the problem are also the same ones who use material things to make themselves feel better too. They feel inadequate so they fill their lives with "stuff" to make them feel better....those are the same guys who would feel inadequate around a woman who's smart and makes more money.
Other men would be like Urban....they'd be alright with it. Hell someone has to make more money, who cares which one it is?
Right on JC with the someone has to make money comment. I never did get this issue. A man who feels insecure about this issue is a man who has many issues he needs to deal with. I'd run for the hills.
__________________
Life's just a crazy ride on a run away train
You can't go back for what you've missed
So make it count, hold on tight find a way to make it right
You only get one trip
So make it good, make it last 'cause it all flies by so fast
You only get one trip
Well in my line of work...I will never have to worry about a man making less than me unless he is an unemployed loser and then I probably wouldn't go out with him anyway. I just have to deal with all the guys and their teacher fetishes...but thats another thread!
Of course I'd date someone who makes less then me. I'm more of a romantic than a golddigger. Although, just once, I want to be.
__________________
Life's just a crazy ride on a run away train
You can't go back for what you've missed
So make it count, hold on tight find a way to make it right
You only get one trip
So make it good, make it last 'cause it all flies by so fast
You only get one trip
lol im soo not like that but i wish i was sumtimes!! id choose happiness and luurve over money anyday...and i like to feed a mans ego and make him feel like a proud king of the jungle.... no matter how SMART or SUCCESSFUL i am !!!
Blah, blah, blah. Sary Windy if that looks or sound arabic. Anyways, woman, such un-selfish woman. If man thought like this and now they are starting to want this, you guys would be left with no options to choose from. You will find, alot of people are marrying for love but money has to come with it.
Date scenario:
M) Hey love, glad to see you again.
So tell me something about yourself.
W) Well I work for etc, doing whatever!
M) How is your financial portfolio looking?
Are you planning ahead? Renting or leasing car and home?
Credit background, do you have some debt to be concern about?
How are we paying for dinner? we both agreed on dinner?
We did just meet, dutch will be great.
That my friend is whats going to happen. Woman are doing it now,
but what happens when a man flips the script.
Something that makes you say, iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiisssssssss sssssssssshhhh!
__________________
Let us never negotiate out of fear. But let us never fear to negotiate.
I could care a less about money, I have my own house, car and career, am raising my own kids and I don't need anything from a man except....... all I need is a man that can ring my bell!!!! and then be smart enough to carry on an intelligent conversation sometimes!!! We can split the check for dinner I have no problem with that(when your in a relationship)......but if a man invites me on a "date" I expect him to pay.....if I invite him I expect to pay! And if I pay for dinner I expect him to put out too!LOL
Actually I think Bill Gates is sexy.... I have a crush on his brain... Can you imagine the sophisticated intelligence of the man... I would be drooling.
And I always thought Dennis Miller was hot... gurrrrrrrrr baby.
__________________ "All around the world, we are gazing skyward, waiting for God... never realizing that God is waiting for us."
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